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done. >> grover norquist holds no elected offense, no official title. he's a lobbyist, president of americans for tax reform. he's been a central figure in this and every tabs debate washington has had for 20 years. for those two decks aid, his position on taxes has been simple -- don't raise them, no time, ever, never. this time he says the senate tax deal is kind of sort of okay and that's got a lot of people somewhat confused. grover norquist johns us now. you said the voting for this deal, which increases taxes on households earning more than 450,000 annually would not violate your pledge that lawmakers make to their constituents. help our viewers understand that. lawmakers who sign that pledge promised to oppose any effort increase tax rates for individuals, for businesses. howe does the fiscal cliff deal not violate that pledge. >> it's technically not a violation of the pledge. but i understand why a lot of republicans have said, look, even though what's happening is the tax cuts disappear and we're restoring them for for most people, so we're not raising taxes, we're actu
basically. we'll talk to grover norquist about this in a second, but this is the way things are going to get decided now for the next four years. there's no grand bargains and stuff like that. >> that's the thinking. look, it could be or it could be that we'll continue to have these skirmishes because there are these ideological differences until it's finally resolved because these two parties are struggling over philosophy and eventually it will be resolved, but until that time, yes, this is what we're looking at for a while. >> hdoes that get resolved, though? >> once the economy recovers and we're clearly out of recession, maybe the anxiety about debt and deficit is lessened or perhaps we get the debt and deficit under control and that makes everybody a bit more optimistic. we've now resolved the tax struggle to some extent. personal income tax is resolved a little bit. so you tackle these one at a time. that might be the way or it might be that the economy picks up. >> right. >> anderson, if i could just add to what jessica is saying, it seems as though a big reason why republicans in th
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